Sad, but true
Published Thursday, July 17, 2008
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Stumble It!July 16, 2008
To the editor:
Congratulations on the series of the four young boys who are now men. Racism is still alive and well, but is hidden more now than back in the 1960s.
George Frese, Marvin Roberts, Eugene Vent and Kevin Pease also had dreams of being married, having children to carry their names into the future, home, friends and a job.
There are a lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered, before the jury throws away the keys.
Why was John Hartman wearing his drug addict friend’s pants, which were too big for him? Also Christopher Stone was in Foodland scared, when his friend lay dying down the street.
When all this was going on, what detective was fired or laid off and why? Why weren’t all the witnesses put on the stand?
Why was the nurse, who is not a shoe expert, allowed to compare the prints on John Hartman’s face to George Frese’s shoe?
There are so many questions and so little answers.
Sometimes, when a person becomes the official, they become the offender, because that person believes that “since they are the official,” they know what’s best for everyone. That is very sad, but true.
In my heart, I know Eugene Vent, George Frese, Marvin Roberts and Kevin Pease did not murder John Hartman. Whoever did is still walking around among us all.
I want everyone to know these young men are not the only innocent people in jail; there are others. So beware of your surroundings when you are in Fairbanks or any big cities.
Community Discussion
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Congratulations for dropping the race card in the very first paragraph. I think most letters written in support of these poor boys waited until the last couple paragraphs before blaming whitey.
You have set a new record, I believe - good job!
"There are a lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered, before the jury throws away the keys." - - news flash - keys were tossed away and trial x3 is over. Find the 'real' people who did this or stop wasting our time.
Before I read this story by the DNM and the associated comments I was pretty open minded - but all this race card stuff has made me bitter....
Funny how no commentary that disagreed with the tone of these articles has been printed by the DNM - has no one written the opposing point of view or is the DNM keeping views contrary to their own out?
People need to seek peace and harmony
Save the sweet but elusive
Alaska
Arctic
penguin.
(i never got to see one yet and antarctic penguins get all the attention)
This is getting ridiculous. There are currently three different letters to the editor on this same topic. All that's getting accomplished, is that people are argueing over something that should gave been put to rest 10 years ago. Way to beat a dead horse News Miner.
The basic fact is these 4 guys admitted to doing the crime and each trial they have had has ended in a guilty verdict,i'm sure these four had dreams of the future but so did the guy they admitted to beating to death.
Enough already ! There is no new evidence to re-open these cases. Going over it again & again will not create evidence or a legal problem to base yet another appeal upon. It is sad to say IT IS OVER. The UAF students have tried but failed to bring to light anything new in these cases. Enough already, OK!
And now i present proof of what the news miner has accomplished, they've got every native kid in town running scared thinking they're next.
What do we do the next time a native kid is plainly guilty of a crime and goes to jail? Is he gonna have a full "investigative" report printed in the paper about how innocent everyone related to him thinks he or she is? Throw in some lines about how racist all the investigators, jurors, and judges were and you'll certainly have someone's attention. When will this stop!?!?
This letter brings up a good point, these boys won't be able to live a complete live. Gee, how sad.
Let this be a lesson to all other young men and women with "dreams of being married, having children to carry their names into the future, home, friends and a job."--Don't kill people and you might have a chance.
I think you're onto something there Skagdog. Don't kill people and you won't have to worry about a fair trial..
Again I say my people:
Save the Alaska Arctic Penguin
And smile.
To those that beleive there is no racism in this country and ALL cops are non-racist and completely innocent, not all BUT THERE ARE PLENTY.
I myself have been arrested under VERY questionable circumstances, jailed for 24hrs and guess what I was finally charged with at the end when I was released out of a drunk tank? (I don't even drink ergo NOT intoxicated) running a stop sign, 24hrs in a county drunk tank for running a stop sign.
This did not happen in 1964 or 1944 or even 1974 this happened in 2006, the officer in question took it upon himself to say my license was expired (I just got it in AK two years before and have never even had a ticket).
Needless to say the officer was "reprimanded" and of course still works at the county I was in, mine is not the only story like that and will not be the last, this same officer would make racist comments to Indians he thought were to drunk to understand him or recall the things said but theres not much to say about the intelligence of racist people anyway. The officer has had many complaints about him and I'm pretty sure at least a couple law suits.
No racism IS alive and well, (not saying that is the case with this murder trial), but who knows? who among you were actually THERE at the time of the murder and can say ANYTHING besides hearsay and your own conclusions made up in your head?
Cops are just people - and therefore subject to all the failings people can have. Of course you're going to have some that aren't what we'd like them to be - but they are just PEOPLE.
I find it odd to see so many claims of racism from Natives, when I have been told by more than one Native friend that there are villages I can not go into as a white person without a "proper" Native escort. Does that mean all Natives are racists? Of course not.
Lost, were YOU there? Aren't you doing the exact same thing you're complaining about? Pot, meet kettle...
"No racism IS alive and well, (not saying that is the case with this murder trial), but who knows? who among you were actually THERE at the time of the murder and can say ANYTHING besides hearsay and your own conclusions made up in your head?"
Ok LostAlaskan, I'll bite, were you actually THERE at the time of the murder? Why haven't you come forward with your eyewitness account exonerating these innocent men found guilty by 3 juries? Maybe because you weren't THERE either? So their innocence is a conclusion made up in YOUR head, right?
Nobody has argued the existence or denial of racism. Everyone knows it still exists. It's on every side of the table going in all directions.
Someone please provide something new in this case that justifies reopening it or give it a rest.
Racism is the first resort of the idiot. Claiming racism around every corner is the second resort of the idiot. For those four "boys" in Arizona: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
"not saying that is the case with this murder trial"
acman- did you actually READ what YOU posted?
It should answer your own question.
Only racists deny racism exists.
All right, NewsMiner, it's time to move on. The paper has been FULL of this OLD story and opinion after opinion from people who don't have any more facts than they "know in their heart" that these guys are innocent, or they believe three separate trials and three separate juries tell the tale well enough.
You've shoved this story down our throats again and again and again. If you have been at PowWow or WEIO or any where in town lately you know this is/has been stirring up the latent racism and associated BS (is that what you had hoped for????).
A community discussion about a story for a few days is one thing but beating a very dead horse until the bloated, rotting corpse blows up and covers everyone with stinking detritus is just plain irresponsible.
With everything else going on in this big, wide state you MUST be able to fill the paper without scraping old wounds raw. It's a sad story but it's now time to move past this after ten years. There is no new information or facts, no startling revelations, and you are now into the realm of seeing diminishing returns for your efforts in publishing more empty blatherings about it. We, your readership, expect more than just re-hashing the old stories. MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have the pot really boiling now Newsminer. You've accomplished everything that you've set out to do, whites against natives, natives against whites. Bet you're sitting at your desks, smiling to yourselves aren't you? Way to go!
I've lived here 53 years and there was a time when the Daily Newsminer had integrity. Sadly enough, the Goodship Newsminer has sunk to an all-time low. You've exhausted your supply of good journalists and now your only option is to ignite the flames under an event that happened years ago. How sad for you, and how unfortunate for those of us who enjoy reading good journalism.
Christ,
Just let those guys out of jail already,
these comments are maddening!
All agreed?
Great, now let's have a group hug and go to WEIO!
Newsminer, my longtime better half is native, and her and I both agree your focus on this issue has done nothing but cause damage to the many natives that lead productive lives.
We spend much of our time in a village and feel the native problem is to much welfare which erodes responsibilty and self-worth. Kids raised in that environment tend to fail. Alcoholism and drug abuse is only a symptom of the problem.
This issue, guilty or not, could have been avoided if these kids weren't running wild.
Good post foxalaska, guidance goes a long way.
I support saving the sweet and harmless Alaska Arctic Penguin
foxalaska- Very good post. With all due respect to you and your wife, FDN's focus on this story has not caused any damage to me. I feel the negative comments from the tunnel visioned folks on here has done more damage. Maybe, sticking to one comment forum on the series would have been more appropriate. Having this comment forum on each and every letter to the editor on the John Hartman case is causing too many openings for those who refuse to be open minded.
Also, I agree with your comment on how this could've been avoided if these kids weren't running wild. That includes the victims.
Lord, I am exhausted by this as well. But mostly by the ignorance and intolerance from many directions.
foxalaska, believe me, that doesn't only happen in the villages and it certainly isn't a symptom of only Native people. I would agree that good parenting from all parties (young, old, big, small, male, female, Native, Caucasion, African American, etc.) would have gone a long way with this andy many situations.
I find it interesting that people are screaming racism over this trial, but not one of those people will admit that the attack and murder that these men were convicted of was against a person that was not the same race as they. The argument can be made that they are murderers and racists.
Just to clarify these guys said they beat the kid because he was gay.
I have a question for all of you that knew these kids and say they would never do anything like this. What about all the men and women that have done outrageous crimes such as serial murders, rape, identity theft, fraud, etc... and there family members never knew?
Do you all remember the Green River Killer? This man was in law enforcement for years with a wife and 3 kids. All the while murdering families for years. No one ever had a clue that he was capable of doing this. He admitted to his crimes--so there was no doubt.
My point is I don't think that you folks saying that you knew these boys has any kind of relevance here.
Regarding InupiaqDiva-
Interesting how anyone who that feels that these boys are guilty is, "refusing to be open minded", and "tunnel visioned". To accuse EVERYONE who disagrees of being ignorant really is reflective of your closed minded and tunnel visioned position. Try avoiding the "always" and "never" statements they are usually indicative of an emotional position rather than a rational one.
But hey, what would I know, I think the boys are guilty so I must be closed minded and tunnel visioned...
How many other murderers are not getting the attention that these boys are getting? Is race an issue?
They were proven guilty.
The jurors all did what they were supposed to do.
Establish guilt.
Does everyone feel better now after having another chance to vent your hostility and show how obviously unhappy you are?
Ok allegheny are these penguins good eating cause the more you want to save them the hungrier i get for penguin sushi. Yeah i'm joking i hear they are better as penguin potstickers.
Tony
Now don't you be taunting my sweet invisible penguins.
They harm zero habitats and have no carbon footprint (---> no fillin' cals).
Come to think of it...
Arctic penguins must be very harmonious and peaceable critters as nobody around here has seen them.
God this is getting old. I forgot why are we going back in history? Bring back the blogs about the Fairbanks Fire Department VS. ISO at least that topic made for great reading. I have notice a change in the people who live in the downtown area since this debate started. I never heard of this case but now I feel like it's getting rammed down my throat. Very sad
Ok allegheny i will not taunt your penguin friends anymore i will have a pizza
Do they have harvest tickets for the usless arctic penguin? I would love to splatter a few withan SKS---GOOD FUN!
Again, I cannot speak to the guilt or innocence of these men serving time in jail. But, I have to say that the flimsiest evidence ever mentioned by anyone is that John Hartman was wearing Chris Stone's pants...I have to say that even in my teens my friends and I used to swap clothes all the time, and my friends (who still wear the same size as me) still engage in this practice.
A better focus would be on actual evidence of guilt, or evidence of innocence, rather than whether one boy was wearing another boy's pants.
I pray for justice for all the families involved in this case. I hope that the truth, whatever it is, can come out soon. Then perhaps we can let one dead child's tortured memory go.
Well, the way I see it, they sit in jail, they are guilty. 3 juries can't be wrong. Racism? Probably not, but who really cares? We all know it exists in each of us, for whatever reason. I'm like everyone else, soooooo tired of this topic. No one has proof they didn't do it, so why bother even posting something so stupid as "I know they didn't do it, I knew the best friend of their second cousin's step sister" or some stupid crap like that? I'm sorry the natives have been discriminated against, wonder if they are sorry that I have been discriminated against for being white in Alaska? Wow, it's true, life sucks all over. The way I see it, everyone has the same opportunities in life, if you choose not to take advantage of them, tough cookies. It's not like people don't know the benefits available to them (check the welfare statistics)(pfd applications)(the latest Bush welfare checks)(the latest Alaska Gov check) etc..... I'm sure everyone who has been mentioned above is getting them (except for the guilty murderers spending their life in prison away from me and mine :-) To be honest, I could give a crap less if they beat to death a white kid, a black kid, native, asian, orange, yellow, purple....... you get the picture, I'm glad they are where they are. Any of you folks who feel sorry for them, well, that's what they are feelings, not facts.
By the way.... cook your wingless birds with a tad bit of butter, lemon pepper and some garlic, mmmmm mmmmmm
Oh wait, we're saving them, never mind Save The Arctic Penquin!!!!!!!!!!!!
The white male is the most discriminated against individual in society these days. Keep the race card active it is worn out. I believe the right people are in jail at least they have that. John Hartman will never see the sun again.
Pat
InupiaqDiva: You wrote: "That includes the victims." VictimS. Wrong. One victim. John Hartman. When you die do you want people referring to you like that? All he has left in this world is his name. Quit electing to forget it.
AND InupiaqDiva, I'm disgusted that you would imply that he was in any way responsible for his assault, rape and murder. Shame on you.
I think I prefer the company of penguins,
arctic or antarctic and even equatorial penguins (should any exist).
Long live the blessed penguin.
Such a coincidence too that this series just happened to be published at the same time as the WEIO was in Fairbanks. Amazing how these things happen, the stars just happened to be so aligned.
I have found a family of arctic penguins and have decided to adopt them out, so come and get 'em, allegheny. You can get one too, tony, and a sample of my wonderful mesquite flavored alaskan BBQ sauce...
Candikane-I did not in any way mean to disrespect John Hartman's name. I was agreeing with foxalaska when I made those statements. There is no shame on me here. I have children. My parenting style, not perfect mind you, does not allow such horrific tragedies to occur in my family because my children are not running the streets.
I do apologize because I should've been more clear about that. I was commenting on parenting.
I did mention victims plural because of Chris Stone. He has not been treated as a suspect, ever, so then I would have to conclude he is a victim also. He was with John Hartman when he died, right?
For all of you who believe that we should move on and forget this ever happened, I have a thought, skip the article. Oh yeah, penguin person, has anyone ever told you at parties that you've run that joke into the ground?
family members are still victims arent they? the suffering from both parties families must count for something...
I am so sick of people defending these four murderers. They admitted to the murder. No intelligent, innocent human being would EVER admit to a murder that they did not commit, no matter what the circumstances. They are GUILTY-end of story!
Allegheny, I have spotted one of those rare equatorial penguins, they are rather shy. Gentle, snuggly creatures, they love mojitos at sunset. You must travel deep into the Amazon Delta & search for them at night on a full, blue moon. Carrying some herring would definitely help with the introductions, as will wearing a tux.
I went to school with all four of those boys..first Kevin is white...second I believe they were capable of murder. And we occasionally hung out in the hallways and had many classes together. Plus they admitted it. Newsminer, why did you feel that there is not enough current news going on, that you needed to bring up this sad tragedy. Its really just a sign of how uncreative and unintelligent your writers and editors are. tssk. tssk. How about some hard hitting truthful news.
Okay, so maybe they were in-fact wrongfully convicted. I'll give you the benefit-of-the-doubt and say they were. Do you honestly believe though, that the reason for it was because the judges, prosecutors, police officers, witnesses, and jurors who were involved with their trials were ALL soooooo racist that they just HAD to throw these kids in prison for 33-79 years?
You’re just kidding around, right? It’s just a joke? Please tell me it’s just a joke…
noonecares--thank you for clarifiying the fact that Kevin was white. I have been asking that for days and no one would respond. Weird because it seemed like everyone on here knew them.....
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I live by a village that whites and natives reside in. People from the cities come in every fall and push the residents farther and farther out of their usual hunting grounds. A couple of years ago, one of the white residents got fed up over this, and shot up the grill of one of their pick-ups. I know, cause he told me so. So, Cosmos, did the native tell you he slashed your tires, or did you see him do it?
I was told before hand, that my vehicle is not known and it might have something wrong with it when I return. as far as the whitey that shot that grill he is also a biggot! I always respect the "hunting grounds" of all regulatory hunting grounds and I respect all people that deserve respect. What a person sowes so shall they reap.
noonecares - you are so right. There are more important things going on in AK and the world then to worry about what happened to 4 killers a decade ago! Thanks for stating that. I am so glad Kelly Bostian is moving on & out of AK! Anytime his friends make the paper (ie Interior Legislator who owned jaybirds, etc.)they get the spotlight while other Interior Delegates are ignored...thanks again for your post!
It is funny to see the big tough END OF STORY folks. I guess you are wrong, probably not the first time.
Personally, I only believe that the newsminer let an article to be run on this topic based of the kids at the university ( who had done this report and it was available on the internet three months ago at least!) because of the WEIO being in town and they wanted to show the Native community that while they where going through appeal cases in Anchorage the good ol' town of Fairbanks is not racist and has our ears to the floor on how important this issue is. IT is called political grand standing by our local newspaper and it was chosen for the wrong four people.
omgwtfbbq
wow JB, you have a pretty active imagination. but I don't suppose you have FACTS to back your THOUGHTS up, do you? theres always some kinda conspiracy isn't there?
After 3 separate jury trials (two were in Anchorage) these young men were found guilty. The 36 jurors heard the evidence and rendered guilty verdicts. Despite appeals to the higher courts, the verdicts still stand. I agree with PAVEL, "the race card is the last resort of the guilty." So, Mr. Journalism--LET IT GO! Fairbanks would like to move forward; a John Grisham you're not. At least Grisham's books are under the correct genre--fiction!
You must be part of the legal system or really out of touch. Grisham's book was not fiction.
allegheny and Tony, you rock. Although some people apparently do not support the penguin, I believe the penguins are our last, greatest hope for peace and harmony in this comment thread. Perhaps we should build them a shrine.
Also, Tony, I hear ostrich steak is rather tasty with half the fat of beef. Have you ever tried one?
Dear News-Miner,
Way to fan the flames of a controversy that should have been put out long ago. How are you serving the Fairbanks community, one that has long tried to heal and promote tolerance, by making sure to throw another log on every time we think the fire's going out and we're making progress? Lame, News-Miner. Super-lame.
There can be no healing until the innocent are free.
lostalaskan99712- a really good conspiracy sits right out in front of your face so obvious that you wouldnt even think it was possible. The facts are all around you, go watch the x files they will tell you too.
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