Blog: Dermot Cole
Anonymous attacks and snide remarks
Published Tuesday, April 29, 2008
There are many things I like about the Daily News-Miner Web site.
But I object to the anonymous slurs people make in response to some news stories.
All too often the comment sections degrade into a series of personal attacks that would never be made in person or accepted in a community forum.
I believe that the standards we set for letters to the editor should be applied to the comments on the Web site.
The tech-savvy people here regard me as someone from the incandescent-bulb era.
They say that the comments on the Web site are not the same as letters to the editor and the rules are different. The rules are contained in a user agreement that a lot of people ignore.
Free-flowing discussion means that people should be free to say almost anything they wish, I'm told.
We've been having a free-flowing debate here on that topic.
I think all those submitting comments on the News-Miner site should use their real names. That's one way of holding people accountable for what they say.
Just as we do in letters, we would identify people by town and, for those from Outside, by state.
Having read thousands of missives to the editor over the years, I know that the name on the end is one bit of information that is vital in determining whether the letter is worth reading.
The same applies to the comments sent to the Web site. Real names are important in a town the size of Fairbanks and the sense of community identity we get from letters to the editor should be preserved on the Web site.
In all communication, it’s important to consider the source. That applies when someone is asking for a bank account number to send you a pile of cash or offering comments on what’s best for Fairbanks and Alaska.
When people say things that they don't want to be identified with publicly, that's a sign of a potential problem.
In rare instances, people with important things to say should be anonymous.
But most of the time, you should not hesitate to attach your real name to what you write. Doing so will make you accountable.
Part of this is about showing respect to others in our community. If you're going to criticize the actions of others, do it in the open.
There are challenges with verifying names, but I think those can be overcome.
If requiring names inhibits people from taking cheap shots and making unsubstantiated claims, that would be a good thing.
If you care to respond, feel free to use your real name.
Mr. Cole:
I agree that a lot of the comments on these topics are ridiculous at best. I don't think people should post hateful comments, but I do think that some need a little written "push" when they're out of line or thoughtless since they can't see body language here.
I comment often and I don't use my real name. I work in a tipping industry for one and I don't want to lose money because someone sees my name on a check. Not to say I don't stand by what I write, only that I don't trust everybody else who disagrees with me to maintain civility.
There was one "story" I commented on that I believe would have risked my safety had others known my name. I wouldn't have said what I said, but I'm glad I could because it needed to be said.
This online community does consider the poster. There are some people's comments I take more seriously than others. There are some I don't take seriously at all. I appreciate the dialog even when it strays and I appreciate it being aloud to stray. Sometimes it's relevant to the topic, other times it's nonsense, but what I most value is when it strays and I see an opportunity to connect with someone about something that is important to me. Topically relevant, no. Relevant in general, I think so.
And you're right, names do say a lot about people. I've used my real one at your request. Can you identify my gender? How 'bout my race? The anonymity in this forum can oftentimes bridge gaps that people less tolerant than yourself may not be readily willing to bridge. There's power in that, and I like it.
I was personally attacked, viciously, awhile back when I posted something about letting my baby watch a cartoon while I fixed her breakfast. It was to a post about the TV channel PBS. My real name was posted. I was very scared for my safety and of course my families safety. For what? A cartoon? So here I am anonymous now. Sorry. I want to post, I want it to be "real" with my name, but the attackers have scared me. Sorry.
Dear Mr. Cole,
I've been wondering how the News-Miner staff are feeling about the comment function now that it's been running for a while. I have read some thoughtful and illuminating comments, and I've read some drivel. I am glad to know there is thoughtful discussion about it taking place at the paper. It never occurred to me not to use my real name when I registered, but it seems I am in the minority in that regard. I can see merit to both sides of the debate about whether comments should be regulated. Is there not some middle ground?
best regards,
LJ
This web site with such extensive posting is the most wide open entertaining informative brawling loving community in our community. Let it go.
It's still new and many people have yet to utilize it or are just dipping a toe in. Look at the number of comments on the Hayes trial. People are crying to not just be heard but to participate. Yes some of us can't spell and have bad grammar. Some get excited and some only need to vent. Is that so bad.
I say as long as it's not obscene let it go. I think you will find more the frequent users riding herd anyway. A few days ago a discussion revolved around a murder case. It started to diverge and the DNM staff stepped in but by that point people were already apologizing. So once again, let it go.
The real test will be this coming winter.
Mr. Cole,
I disagree with your assertion that people are not accountable for their anonomous remarks. People using the internet are simply aware of the need to protect their personal information and privacy. Alaska is full of people with good ideas and strongly held opinions. The Staff at the DNM should review posts and remove any containing personal attacks while allowing direct debate and rebuttals.
There are inherent problems with private citizens using a real name in print and public forums. First civil discourse can devolve resulting in very real personal attacks. Simple web searches of names and cities can reveal the location of the author's home, phone number, and name of any pets. So far the DNM is doing a good job of protecting the personal information of it's bloggers.
Also, misidentification of the actual author can be a problem for people with common names. That happened to me recently when doing a title search in a land purchase. I had to release my social security number to prove that I did not owe child support to the state. My name is online with public records as a private land owner in the borough and the same name is in the state records for overdue child support.
I don't want any uninvited guests or social services showing up at my doorstep just because I voiced an opinion. Call me paranoid, but for good reason writers have been using pseudonyms a lot longer than the incandescent light bulb.
Respectfully,
Mark Twain JR.
Mr Mark Twain Jr.:
So exactly how are people held accountable when they don't use their names?
Sir,
That is a question for the DNM Staff. What is the DNM policy for those that violate the terms of use? The DNM has my username on file and can block me from posting. Losing a priveledge is a form of punishment. That won't stop fanatics from coming back under pseudonyms, and unless you plan to require registration in person and require references, it's impossible to prevent.
Respectfully,
MTJ
Dermot,
As you do, I love the principle of accountability and the resulting civility it brings to public discourse. However, I think I have to come down on the other side, also for the sake of public discourse.
There are many opinions and personal facts that, while valid and important to hear, are unpopular and can get the person voicing them in trouble. Here are a few made-up examples:
* "I do cocaine, but only once in a while. It isn't as addictive as people think, and it shouldn't be illegal."
* "My partner and I swing with other couples. Conventional exclusivity isn't always the healthiest way to go."
* "I don't believe in God, and do think that theistic religion does more harm than good."
* "I believe that humanity was created /ex nihilo/ by God and that every human being contains a divine spark."
* "The military presence in Fairbanks does more harm than good; what's more, every person in the military is morally culpable for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead."
* "Nobody has a right to a large lot of land if he isn't practicing agriculture."
* "Getting an abortion was the best decision I ever made."
I hope you'll agree, Dermot, that all of these statements could be important parts of public discourse on important topics. I also hope you'll agree that the speakers of such statements could (a) quickly lose friends, (b) have a hard time getting a job in Fairbanks or in a particular field, (c) lose any chance of holding public office, or (d) risk bodily harm at the hands of those with a different view.
(continued next post)
(continued)
I use my real name on the News-Miner site and try my best to diplomatic while still speaking truths (as I see them). But it's really hard to speak from the heart when you know your opinion is likely to bring you unrelated and undeserved hardship. Often I see anonymous contributors voicing opinions that I wish I had the courage to voice. I’m glad they’re saying things that need to be heard.
I truly wish that we lived in a society more tolerant of different opinions. Perhaps there, a woman wouldn't have to fear that disclosing her abortion would prevent her from serving on the Borough Assembly, or a scientist could profess his belief in the divine without having to worry about being taken seriously as a paleontologist. But it's not the society we live in.
Of course, there's a good argument that the freedom to write anonymously does nothing to increase tolerance. When people of unorthodox persuasions only admit them anonymously, they are in one sense staying silent and perpetuating intolerance. For example, you may think you don't know anybody who takes the biblical creation story seriously. As long as your believing friend makes his only professions of belief anonymously, you will never be confronted with that difference and will never learn to accept him for the complex person he is.
To that argument, I would say that anonymous public discourse is better than complete silence. Even if those with unwelcome things to say cannot be personally known, they can at least expose the rest of us to a diversity of opinion, and perhaps pave the way to a time when they and others can express themselves without fear.
If some rudeness is the price we pay for allowing people to express unconventional points of view, then it's a small price.
--Paul Adasiak
I strongly believe that all comments, letters, articles, etc. should be signed by the person doing the writing. I do not believe in anonymous letters, allegations, accusations, criticisms, etc. Supporting anonymity is like supporting a 'kangaroo court'. Our country's legal system is based on the right of each person to face their accuser, know what the allegations against them are and be able to have their day in court. I have served on several boards and commissions in Fairbanks and Statewide. When anonymous letters were received they were thrown out and not given any consideration. If someone is not willing to stand behind their words, it leads to bullying, grandstanding, intimidation, and the type of comments that one would never make if others knew who they really were.
When I wrote my letter to the editor recently, I didn't know that there was a comment section where any 'John Doe' could attack me or what I said without me knowing who they were. I would have written my letter any way but I think some people might not want to send in a controversial letter to the editor. The News-Miner does not state anywhere on the 'letters to the Editor' page that there is a comment section comprised of a group of anonymous bloggers who can say almost anything they please without signing their real names
Hiding behind a curtain of falsehood leads to a community of lies and liars. I think that Fairbanks is a community that is head and heels above this. We are a community that respects individualists, people who stand up for their beliefs. We are all eccentric in some way and Fairbanks is a place where this does not have to be hidden. Uniqueness is valued here; we are encouraged to be ourselves. I believe that using our real names will lead to fair and interesting debates with our neighbors. Debates are healthy, anonymous attacks are unacceptable.
So, I request from the N-M, let's not try to be like the lower 48. We are different, very different and I hope we stay that way. I like to think we are more accepting and more real. Let's keep it that way through honesty, integrity and our own community vision. Let's keep it real; let's see what our neighbors think. Let's not hide behind a hood of anonymity. That sounds more like the KKK than the
Fairbanks I know and love.
Bonnie Brody
Bonnie,
The only time you cannot respond directly to an "accuser" is if you chose not to do so. You can send me an e-mail through the DNM by clicking on my user name on this post. It protects our privacy. If I formally address a public official or commission, I put it in writing, sign it, include my contact information and speak only from first hand knowledge or voice my personal opinion. This forum is a good place to discuss and stay on top of the issues, but the only place to address them formally is in the official venues.
I'm softening from my position before that the anonymity was necessary. It's not because I no longer think that there are some points of view that are risky to express publicly, but because I know three people who have said they would now never write a letter to the editor -- including one good friend whom I know to be an intelligent, conscientious, outspoken person.
I see Mr. Cole's fear coming true that anonymous discourse will soon become the norm within Fairbanks, lacking any of the civilizing restraints of being known. That may be acceptable on a national or global scale, where people aren't expected to know each other or be involved in building a community together -- but it is no way for a small town to hold its discussions.
I am still concerned for the ability of some people to express very unpopular or personally dangerous positions (like "religion is harmful" or "I'm a gay child of this conservative pastor"). It's hard to know when people may have important truths to tell. But it gets even harder if they have to fear for their careers or their safety. Somehow I'd like to salvage some protection for the important but difficult truths.
Dermot,
In regard to your inquiry as to why I do not provide my identity, ... I don't find it necessary and am not seeking validation for the comments that I post that may or may not be critical. I strongly believe that if you are a public figure (political, Hollywood, on-air talent, etc) than you open yourself to public remarks.
Again, my comments are stream of conscience, not meant to be analyzed quite so literally by you or anyone else. They are thoughts, feelings, memories bundled up together and expressed in written form, ... why should I have to reveal who I am because of that.
Seriously, find another topic, ... the Identity issue is constantly brought up by you. We all know it's your pet peeve, ...just drop it. Again, identity doesn't validate the comment, ... just provides excuses for those who don't agree with it to cry foul.
Quote: "Having read thousands of missives to the editor over the years, I know that the name on the end is one bit of information that is vital in determining whether the letter is worth reading."
Dear Mr. Cole,
I wanted to comment on this quote from the original statement of this thread. I totally agree that I often scan for the name of the writer in Letters to the Editor. Mainly because there are some wonderful writers with fine wit and great senses of the sarcastic. I will name names because I am complimenting, not dissing them; I delight in reading letters from David James and Pete Buist. Others, like Doug Yates, often articulately write controversial letters that are thought provoking.
There are many people in Fairbanks who write well and have interesting opinions, but most of the time, the only way that we can read their writing is in letters in the FDNM.
Fairbanks is still a small enough town that people like this become known and letters from them can be found by scanning for their names. It definitely helps me to find the writer's name at the end of the letter.
Dermot, The Internet has made us more sensitive to authentication problems -- we don't always know for sure who is at the other end of the communication. It has always been possible (even easy) to forge or anonymize letters, but it wasn't enough of a problem to worry about.
I've read good comments (and drivel) from real name authors and pseudonyms. It seems to me that the real issue is the quality of the comments. People using their real names hopefully put a little more thought into their content and think about their tone.
Maybe a moderation system like Slashdot (http://slashdot.org) uses would help separate good comments from drivel, cheap shots and snide comments?
Or maybe encouraging a culture of good comments and real names will do the trick.
Please write in your next column about these personal attacks on people. Today in one blog a person suggested someone shoot the President!! Either discontinue this form of writing or create a black list for people that to continue disrepect other people. There is alot of hatred and bitterness and that is not form of opinion. Its a form of slander against someone.
Dermot, I don't post frequently, but when I do I would love to use my own name as I stand behind what I say and do. We teach this accountability to our children also. However, due to where I work and what I do, I have an extremely high exposure rate to some highly sensitive information and I would be opening myself up to a great deal of difficulty. I am not willing to put myself or my family in danger. I do like the give and take provided in the comments section and it saddens me when it deteriorates to mud slinging. I have learned a great deal from others and I know my coments have helped others. My friends that read and post have been able to identify my comments by their tone and verbage so in a small sense, I am accountable. In all things, I am accountable to myself and the high regard in which I hold my fellow Alaskans. A good idea when shared can become a great idea.
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