Letter to the Editor
Dropout reasons
Published Sunday, November 23, 2008
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To the editor:
The article about the Alaska dropout rate being the highest in the nation disturbed me. The article went on and on about how the parents don’t value education and how teachers can tell if a student is going to make it through high school as early as kindergarten. But did these smart guys in suits ever consider that it is the actual high schools that are making students drop out?
As a high school student who decided to do online schooling instead, I can tell you that the high school I went to was the exact reason I dropped out. Maybe it was the fact that if I got to school late they would lock me out into the cold. Or maybe it was the fact that the teachers and staff treat us like we are 5 years old. Maybe it was because the teachers move at such a fast pace that you never understand what is going on. We don’t even have decent lockers. I almost got suspended for carrying pepper spray for my own protection.
The schools are ridiculous, but not once did these guys who are obviously so smart think that it is actually the high schools that are driving us crazy. No, it’s because the kid didn’t know his colors in kindergarten — he was never going to be successful. And so to change this problem we are going to put more money toward pre-kindergarten classes. Yea, good luck with that.
Most kids these days are necessarily dropping out. They are doing online schooling instead, which is understandable. You learn at your own pace and you don’t have to deal with the horrible school environment. So my message to the school system is: Instead of wasting more money on something we don’t need, why don’t you fix the real problem, or else most of your staff is going to be out of jobs.
Community Discussion
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Haley,
I'm confused. You say the School District should, "fix the real problem," but I don't think you explain what that is. Is it that you are locked out in the cold if you're 5 minutes late? (I sincerely doubt that that happens)? Is it that the staff doesn't seem to respect you? Is it because you were nearly suspended for carrying a weapon in school?
i actually quit going to "public" school my senior year. i decided to attend the cec instead. however it wasn't the teachers that influenced my desicion or the sometimes overbearing rules, but it was actually the students themselves. i felt that i was always in classes with disrespectful, troublemaking kids! yes the teachers send kids to the office for misbehaving and disrupting other students learning. and although that may sound corny it is absolutley true! i found that once i went to cec i was able to concentrate on my work and was never distracted by other students making rude remarks to the teacher or cracking jokes at innapropriate material- such as the holocaust and the teacher just told him to be quiet... even though i went for only three hours everyday i found that learning was much more enjoyable i had more choices and i even did better in math than i had in the previous 3 years in highschool due to the fact that i was able to have one on one attention with the teacher before it was, "i don't have time to show you again, i already showed the class."
A couple of issues here...Rules are rules and they will be a part of life forever. The RULE is that you have to be "on time" then the consequence for not following the rule may be a locked door. If the RULE is no pepper spray, then the consequence is what it is if you decide not to follow that rule. Teachers teach at a rate that the government has mandated. The government mandates what needs to be taught in every grade, more or less. If a student cant keep up, there are lots of options like tutors for instance. At some point we need to take responsibility for ourselves and not wait for someone to help us. As for the issue with "early intervention"...yes there is hard core research based data to prove that there are things to be done very early on to prevent dropouts. Sounds like there are lots of issues here and no one thing will fix the entire problem, but "the guys in the fancy suits" are on one right track.
I helped raise my husbands children. I learned early on that if the student does not want to learn, the teacher can't teach.
Sounds like a bunch of grown-ups telling the kids what is best for the kids without listening to what the kids are trying to tell them. No respect for a childs opinion because we as grown ups know better than they do about what goes on in their daily lives. I know when I tell my son whats better for him, he responds very well. Kudos to all of you! B.S., pay attention, and quit being pretentious. And if you don't have kids, don't post about what's best for them. Teachers of all people should understand what a students needs are, that's their job. When I was in school, teachers knew almost every student and could isolate and work with an individual on a one on one basis when needed, in hopes to avert any trouble a kid may have with a subject, or just in daily activities in school. Maybe this girl sees something you don't. Think back, pay attention, that's all.
You are now Looking at the Next Batch of “Obama Voters”
As an educator, I think that the issue is a bit more complex - but solvable. A couple of years ago, I came to the realization that my students in college were having trouble imagining things they'd had in class or that I was teaching them. There were other issues, too. After talking to AP Biology teachers from all over the US, I realized this is a national problem. While everyone wanted to blame everyone else, I came to believe that the issue was that our kids, because of TV, video games, sports, etc and teaching to the tests, lost most of their pretend time. While this affects all students, decreasing analytical capability and sympbolic reasoning, i.e., math, I think it has a more significant impact on boys. Boys need to explore, pretend, climb trees, hunt, etc. Girls need it, too, but I think boys -like the person who wrote this letter, have a more physical reaction to the passive learning environment that today's young people experience.
There are remedies for this. I take undergraduate and graduate students and have them close their eyes and imagine things. They seem to believe that the highest human endeavor is memorization. I tell them that human beings' highest abilities are imagining, dreaming, connecting dots, and innovation/invention.
If we believe that the major challenge for the development of today's students is lack of integration of imagination into learning and active rather than passive learning, then each of us can immediately think of ways to restore this to young people's lives. For little kids, go to Goodwill and get them some clothes for pretend play, get them out into the woods or looking at stars, and work with them to make up stories. For older children, turn off the TV and make sure they have an opportunity for music and art, hiking, writing, etc. Talk with them. Have family discussions - and encourage discussion-based courses in their schools.
I have been very grateful that my university allows me the latitude to explore teaching methods in biology courses. I think this environment affects us all - but I find that students from small towns (where they have had chores and were allowed to hang out and pretend with their friends), from gifted classes that required discussions, and some home schooled children are less affected by this.
The good news is that, if I am correct, Alaska should be able to break out of this faster than other, more urban states - and Alaskan students who focus on using their imaginations in learning and incorporating facts and ideas could become extremely important as future leaders for our country.
Dear Glockmod, if you do a bit of reading and thinking, I believe you would find the issue is more complex than all Obama voters are stupid. Just the same way that Republicans represent a diverse group of people - so do Democrats. In fact, Obama seems to be doing a great job so far, so, if you want to keep up the knee-jerk response, put a weight on your ankle, so at least your leg gets some exercise.
If you can do anything to help - and I am assuming here that you care about the future of our country and our children - and be part of the solution - it would be to think a bit about what the issues are and identify things you can do to help kids be kids again. I found, early in my assesment of the problem, that most people wanted to blame someone else - but, honestly, based on the success I have had with my approaches, the problem is what we have all done.
Hang in there.
I hope you find the self motivation to finish your classes on-line. I imagine if you didn't have the motivation to get to school on time that it will be really hard to motivate yourself to get that done.
When I was in high school I also had a job. I was on time for both and did not have a car or a cell phone or a computer as an option to finish school.
I think your generation is going to have the worse time of getting through school & life of any generation ever - and a lot of it is the distraction of technology!
Can someone please tell me WHY parents are sending their kids to school with cell phones and why teachers are allowing them in the classrooms??
I agree with "Mom" about active learning, I hope the Watershed Charter School gets approved for '09, I'd love for my child to learn from Fairbanks out--studying the outdoors as part of his everyday learning...it sounds very engaging.
I blame the union. What we need to do is get rid of the protections for crap schools and crap teachers. Let any kid enroll or transfer to any school they want to attend. Get rid of tenure.
Sherry29 ... your answer to this letter is about as ridiculous as your answer was to the letter about the six year old taking the bus home by mistake instead of staying for her after school program. You blamed the six year old. Once again, you fail to see the bottom line.
This writer is my daughter. She is 17 and has her life together better than most 17-year-olds. Yes, she should have been on time for school. Yes, she should have not brought her pepper spray into the school. And, yes, I'm sure if there hadn't been a B.E.S.T. Program she'd still be there but thank god there is that program because it's been the best thing that's happened to her. She's now getting straight A's again and looking more favorably toward college. She is now a much better, more responsible person now that she has more control over her education. She WANTS to learn.
Haley had to write this letter for her journalism class. I told her that the commentary was going to tear her up because people get to hide behind cute little names and spew their hatred without repercussions on here. And, yes, as a matter of fact she supported Obama. I didn't. But she held firm to her beliefs.
I am proud of my daughter. If you all want to be negative, have at it. I promise you, it won't phase either of us. You are going to see more and more students dropping out of public schools and entering into programs like B.E.S.T. She has a strong point. Teachers are soon going to be facing job security issues in the not so distant future. I don't know who exactly is to blame for that but I agree with Haley, the answer isn't in kindergarten class.
Waaaa, Waaaaa, Waaaaa! SO you think your future employer will let you wander in whenever you want? You think your future boss is going to be "respectful" and understanding of your poor "feelings"? You think your next employer is not going to expect you to learn and perform your new given tasks quickly and to perform efficiently?
Sounds like you need a BIG reality check into the real world young man.
Best of luck to you sir. I sense you are going to need all you can get.
sorry.....ma'am
Hey two decades ... looks like YOU are the one that needs more of an education. Haley is a GIRL'S name, not a young man's. And, as a matter of fact, Haley is on time every time she works and she is thought VERY highly of by her boss and her coworkers. She's the first person they call to work extra shifts when someone else calls in sick or doesn't show up. So, I think her reality check is pretty rock solid. And, she posted under her REAL name. I think that takes guts to do, especially on this site with people like you to try and cut her to shreds.
I do believe that when a student fails there is a lot more to it. A student does not fail themselves in most cases. A teacher fails the student. There are a select few that look for reasons to drop out but there is others that truly strive hard to stay in school and just get pushed back, so they take the alternative and do online courses, or just become a drop out. There are a lot of teachers now a days that are there strictly for the paycheck and do not care about the students. Now, there are the ones that are there for the students too and they go way over the top and beyond. I don't have to mention any names as you all know who you are. Give yourselves a big pat on the back. You deserve it! There IS a reason why students drop out rates are increasing. I think you all need to take this more serious and try to get to the bottom of it and encourage students to graduate. A diploma is very important so reach for the stars and please think twice before you just drop out and throw your education out the door.
Wanting to drop out and actually dropping out are two different things. The fact that Haley chose to pursue her education online from home is something that a lot of people do nowadays. It's the information age, and you can take classes at 10000 colleges or better in your underwear while you watch SportsCenter if you like. A lot of places even let you graduate without ever setting foot in a classroom.
To trash a high schooler that chose to take her classes from home is foolish. As far as pepper spary, and tardiness, and cell phones...those things are going to exist no matter how much control the administation tries to exercise. Frankly, as often as I see school shootings, and date rape drugs, and teachers going to prison for sleeping with their students on the news, I'd be a little apprehensive too if I was 17 year old girl in a public school.
Some kids just don't like school. I remember a few of my friends that wanted to quit, but stayed in school for vocational classes. Some people aren't too handy with Chemistry or Physics, but put a wrench or a torch in their hands, and they're artists. And very successful after they graduate. The point is they finished, for whatever reason, and deserved to be commended for it. To each his own, eh? As long as the end result is the same, who cares where an education comes from? A diploma is a diploma as far as I know, and anyone who makes the effort to obtain one deserves a pat on the back. Not a slap in the face.
It starts at home.
You late getting to school, adjust your home morning routine and mom and or dad, help them.
You do not know pepper spray is considered a weapon? Help them understand parent(s) or guardian.
Respect is earned, it is not a "right!" However it is a two way avenue.
I will agree from my numerous years of experience in the schools, not all teachers are at the level they should be. But you have to learn to work with all personalities. That is a fact of life and something you should be learning with middle-school and high school maturity. You have one teacher per class room to adjust to. A teacher has 30-36 personalities, and attitudes to deal and adjust to.
DEAL WITH IT, BUT NOT ALONE. ISN'T THAT RIGHT MOM AND OR DAD?
i graduated from west valley high school. overall, i would rate my experience there as fairly positive. i never got so far behind in a class that i became as fed up as haley did, and i only had one total screw ball teacher in my 4 years there. however, not every student gets as lucky as i was and evidently the system did not work for haley. in my mind, the real problem lies in those student who drop out and stay out. that's where we need to focus our time and money. the current public school system is far from flawless, but if you consider all the legal aspects and social aspects it needs to cover, then we've gotta work with what we're given. alternative education, such as online courses, is a fantastic route when students take advantage of it. but i know a lot of people who dropped out when they were 16 and still haven't gotten their GED or have no plans to. that's where the real problem lies.
Did you not have Enlish and Grammer, majast2211?
I am just kidding!
I do agree with you in part.......................good job
LSmith-My response was to your daughter's reasoning for quitting organized education. The reasons she gave were that SHE was not happy with what she found there, which makes her exactly like I was and like, I would venture, 80% of the kids that walk through the doors every day. The difference is that, just as in the real world, we must deal with those things that are unpleasant to us in the work place if we are to make a living to feed ourselves and giving up on education because you don't like the atmosphere is not a precursor to gaining long term positive employment in ones life. The work place is rarely idyllic, any more than the school is.
Now, my question to you is:If she is able to get to work on time, then why was she not able to get to school on time? Motivation? Well, that's your job and by your vehement defending of her I assume that that was not the problem? So why was she unable to get to school on time? That was listed as her PRIMARY issue?
I never suggested that your daughter wasn't well liked or that she was unwilling to work overtime for extra money in her pocket, so I don't know what that is all about.
I assume her employer has no problem with her carrying pepper spray. I assume that since she is getting paid in money instead of knowledge she doesn't particularly care what age level they treat her.
I wish her the best, as I have every other kid who has posted on here that they don't like this or they don't like that about the real life situations that they find themselves in, and I hope that with that internet diploma she can scholarship her way into an accredited University and get a degree that will prepare her for a high paying career and an opportunity to be a happy and financially independent and content woman in the future.
As to my name, if you wish to email me to discuss this further, I will be more than happy to share that with you.
Bravo, Haley, for having the courage to tell your story in public. The problems with schools are many and complex - I think Mom probably has some excellent ideas about how to turn it around. I'd love to talk with you more. I think one thing that isn't the answer is the massive purchase by the school district of Smart Boards for every classroom at Pearl Creek Elementary. I doubt that they'll serve as a window into the imaginations and creativity of our children. I agree with Haley that the school district throws money at hot button issues (pre-kindergarten) and hot new technology (Smart Boards), hoping it will make a difference when it likely will not.
School district, its time you actually listened to our master teachers; there are many in this district. They know how to fix the problem - just ask them and let them develop a plan without fear of reprisal. Then, implement the plan. You may not like the answers they give you but if you truly care about the students, you'll put it in the hands of our master